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Side tapering
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Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:21 am ]
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Hi everyone. My name is Doug and I'm a new member as well as new to guitar making.

I have a problem that I've searched all over the net, and this site, and as of this posting, can not get an answer.
What is the best way to taper the sides of bent wood? Are there templates out there? I try using a plane and the wood splits. I don't have a sanding dish, but I think thoses are more for the tapering fit for the top and back

I'm working on my 2nd guitar and am working with maple. Last nite I glued the sides to the back and today I'm planning on cutting the sides down so I can fit the top. On my 1st guitar, the sides came out a little skewed and hence the whole guitar, ( A great learning experience though and a great adventure.)
If anyone can give some advice it would be very much appreciated.

And my last question. Is one supposed to become addicted to guitar making? I can't seem to stay out of my shop. I came out to eat, once in a while, then find myself back working on my guitar. I'm retired now, but I never worked this hard, or with this much enthusiasm in my former job.
Anyway, thanks for being here and for your future responses.
Doug Kleist
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:43 am ]
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Cut you a pattern out of paper, carfully tape in place. carfully mark the pattern on the side and plane down to the just short of the line. Sand till the line is all but gone equally.

If you are splitting the wood when you are planing then either you trying to take too big of a shaving or your blade is ragged and needs sharpening. I would invest in sanding bowls or make you own if you intend to keep building. I also would in the future pre cut your sides to near profile prior to bending. It is much simpler. I cut mine an 3/32 to 1/8 proud assemble the rim glue in the linings flush with the rim edeges and use the sanding bowl to bring the back edges into finial profile. The top edges of my sides are square till just before I put the top on. Then I prifile it with the sanding bowl Hope this helps and welcome to the forum always glad to have newbies
Author:  FrankC [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:51 am ]
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Welcome. john Mayes on this forum used to sell templates for 4 models. Not sure if he still does but I have them and they help.
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:50 am ]
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Michael,
Thanks for the reply. I thought that might be the way to do it, but I can't find a pattern to cut out. Should I gently tape paper to my Taylor or Martin, unfold these and use that?

Frank,
Yes I would be interested in obtaining some templates. How would I do that?
Thanks guys.
Doug
Author:  Dickey [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:52 am ]
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Doug, you are sick and you should seek help ... at once. When you find it please tell us where you found it, we are all ailing from the same sickness. Tongue in cheek....... It is addictive isn't it.

Here is what I do, I take a slice of aluminum foil cut lengthwise and add it to a guitar already in existance with sides profiled. Always one I made, using my dishes to sand the profiles. I know. What came first the chicken or the egg.

So there is no easy answer, but you can take that aluminum foil strech it out and tape to 1/8" tempered bath board, head over to the bandsaw and cut yourself a template. You can sand out any bumps on the belt sander to get really close.

McKenzie shares a cool tool in the Tools and Jigs section to profile sides. And don't forget to use common sense, it's quite handy in the shop.... grin.
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:04 am ]
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Dickey,
Aluminum foil! Who would have thought. You I guess. Thanks man, I'll try that.

Yes I am sick, so my wife tells me. (only kidding) And besides, I don't think I want treatment for this addiction.
Author:  Kelby [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:25 am ]
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As far as planing, the trick is a sharp blade, a modest cut, and planing in the right direction.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:26 am ]
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[QUOTE=BlueSpirit] Michael,
Thanks for the reply. I thought that might be the way to do it, but I can't find a pattern to cut out. Should I gently tape paper to my Taylor or Martin, unfold these and use that?

Frank,
Yes I would be interested in obtaining some templates. How would I do that?
Thanks guys.
Doug[/QUOTE]
What size guitar is it? I have a pattern for an Om or a SJ that I will give you a copy of but It is my dim's and vary very slightly from Martin dim's
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:35 am ]
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Michael,
It's my own design. Sort of a jumbo. The length of the body is 20 3/8", the upper bout ids 10 7/8" and lower is 15 7/8".
Doug
Author:  tl507362 [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:16 am ]
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Hi Doug,
Good to see you here! You say that you already glued your back on, so does that mean that the taper from front to back was already done to the back side of your sides? If so, then the next step is to take your sides down to the final dimension minus top thickness. But remember to leave the waist a little taller than the upper and lower bouts. The reason is because when you put your sides in a radius dish, the middle will need to be taller so that it makes contact all the way around the dish. Some people don't worry about this, as they just glue the kerfing proud so that it contacts the radius dish in the middle and sand in the radius dish. I did this on my first, but if your binding is not tall enough it will not cover up the kerfing. I switched methods since then, and now radius the sides in the radius dish, then glue on my kerfing just a 1/32" proud and sand down in the radius dish. It just looks cleaner and I don't have to worry about the binding. You should get Robert O'Briens DVD on how to build a steel string, this is all covered in the DVD. You might want to buy some radius dishes from me too if you don't feel like making them yourself! Good luck!
Tracytl50736238581.6784490741
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:19 am ]
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I can draw you up a pattern but I need to know the simi-circumfrance length dim around the rim from butt centerline to neck joint centerline, also the point that you want the taper to start and the min max rim depth. It would also be hepfull to have the dim from the neck/body joint perpendicular to the centerline of the waist. Typicaly the tapper starts at about 2" lower bout side of this dim but varies from builder to builder and body size to body size.
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:30 am ]
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Michael,
ummmmm! WHAT????
No, I think I know what you mean. I'll go down to the shop and get some measurements, hopefully.
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:32 am ]
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Hi Tracy,
Good to see you here too. Seems like we just did some talking the other day. Good to hear from you
Doug
Author:  tl507362 [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:37 am ]
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Michael,
Isn't it too late for this since he already glued the back on? Am I missing something?
Tracy
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:41 am ]
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Tracy I don't think he has the back on yet. I believe the rim is assembled but not profiled
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:50 am ]
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Michael and tracy
Yes the back is glued to the rims. As I understood some instruction I read somewhere, I was supposed to join the botton of the sides with a hand planer (Like when the top and back pieces are joined)Then bend the sides. I then was instructed to put a 15 degree radius on my back braces and glue the back to the sides.
Doug
Author:  tl507362 [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:56 am ]
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Doug,
There is a difference between side profile and side taper. The side taper refers to the back angle from the tail block to the heel. The side profile is both the angle and the radius of the side. Does that make sense?
Tracytl50736238581.7064236111
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:05 am ]
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Very much so. In my original question I asked "What is the best way to taper the sides of bent wood? Are there templates out there?"
I use a a 2x4 cut to a 15 degree radius with sandpaper on it to profile the sides. But I need dishes, hence our other e-mails.
And thanks for the e-mail from your store. I just answered it.
Doug
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:09 am ]
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That means you need to compensate the out of square of the Rim and back assembly by triming the top edges of the rim???   I never have never done it this way or I am confussed wich is tolaly possible MichaelP38581.7168287037
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:14 am ]
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I doubt if your the one that's confused. That would probably be me.
Maybe I need to go back to the drawing board, take the back off and wait until I get my sanding dishes and more info.
Doug
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:35 am ]
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you don't have to have the sanding dishes you can do this with a sanding plank for lack of other term. but too me, if you join the back before profiling the rim the curvature of the back willl rack the rim. and profiling the top edge to compensate would be difficult at best.

I would carfully remove the back, check to make sure the rim is still square , profile the back edge of the rim and re-attach the back.

A good free source source for what I mean by a sanding plank and how to use it is the instruction book for Stew-Mac kits. See the Information index on their sight for a free copyMichaelP38581.7348726852
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:43 am ]
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Thanks mike, I'll do that. You guys are the best. Thanks for putting up with new guys like me.
Doug
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:47 am ]
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We were all new at one time or another and to quote a very good friend of mine "The true measure of the craftsman's soul is the sum of all he has learned multiplied by all he has taught."
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